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 Post subject: Traction control
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:12 pm
Posts: 2617
Location: North Salem NY
There has been much talk about traction control. Some for and some against.
As a member of the rules commitee i can tell you there was much discussion about what is and what is not traction control.
One could consider it to be anything from conventional traction control found on modern new cars, all the way to a light right foot on a totally stock car.
But in the words of Bill O'Rielly
lets enter the "no spin zone" (PUN INTENDED)
Conventional traction control has been banned.
I believe we know what that means!
And the 7 box is allowed without traction control appurtenances!
Pre-Programmed, or presettings,to "ignition"is O.K. as is distributor tuning, carb tuning, chassis, or drivetrain tuning also.
So i think its pretty clear what we are trying to say.

many of you wouldnt let some one else drive your car, so why let a computer!
You drive it on skinny tires and have fun, and i must say many of you do it real well with out T.C. anyway so keep up the good work.

P.S. For the record:I am not accusing anybody of using it we are just saying we dont want it in Super Car Races!

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69 Nova SS 396 L89
10.481
1.61 60’
132.34 mph


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:59 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Sparkill, NY
Ted

3 Days and nobody has talked about this??? I am just thinking out loud for a minute!!!! A digital 7a box can do far more than any single traction control device(hands down!) You talk about a computer driving you car? I don't think you know what can be done with this system the way you express
your opinion. Anyone that can master a computer can master a digital 7a box. Thats from taking timing out of your launch or your shift points to taking a little out at the top for speed!

I haven't got there yet but when I know that I got all the power that can be had from a MOPAR wedge I will be looking towards technology. Nobody sitting in the stands wants to see a Super Car or a F.A.S.T car go slow. It's great to see pretty muscle car go in the 11's but it's MUCH BETTER TO SEE IT RUN IN THE 10's. This is my opion and this is where I am headed.

Start changing rules start bracket racing??


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:59 pm
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Location: Sparkill, NY
Just so you don't think I 'am bias! I do not have a digital 7a box in my car! Nor did I every have one. I just wanna polish my car till the primer show's :drive


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:45 pm
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Ed, I spoke with Lane and Dit 7 box is legal.
Lane also told me you will need a Dit 7 box to beat his a$$. lol
Just kiddin. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:53 pm
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Location: Bristol CT
Ed Cook wrote:
Ted

3 Days and nobody has talked about this??? I am just thinking out loud for a minute!!!! A digital 7a box can do far more than any single traction control device(hands down!) You talk about a computer driving you car? I don't think you know what can be done with this system the way you express
your opinion. Anyone that can master a computer can master a digital 7a box. Thats from taking timing out of your launch or your shift points to taking a little out at the top for speed!

Start changing rules start bracket racing??


I want to start by saying the rules committe has changed no rules that affect the style of racing we enjoy.

As for Digital boxes, the majority of the cars don't have one. But most want to see the box allowed?? The Rules Committee listened to the voice of the racers and agreed. If the 10's is what you want out of this, a digital ignition is the way to get deep into the numbers.

I know your car, Lanes, Kens and Dons will this fall run the number at the Supercar Events we have on the schedule. I also know for you guys to be competetive at all tracks you may need the Digital Box. A Digital box may help you on a slick track. The rules committee decided this needed to be part of SuperCars Rules.

8.05 Traction control is not legal. Traction control is defined as any device that monitors engine and/or driveline rpm in order to detect tire slip and automatically control it either mechanically or electronically.

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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:23 pm 
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Ed Cook wrote:
Ted

I haven't got there yet but when I know that I got all the power that can be had from a MOPAR wedge I will be looking towards technology. Nobody sitting in the stands wants to see a Super Car or a F.A.S.T car go slow. It's great to see pretty muscle car go in the 11's but it's MUCH BETTER TO SEE IT RUN IN THE 10's. This is my opion and this is where I am headed.

Start changing rules start bracket racing??


Ed, I want to say that I disagree. All cars that run in any time slot are very impressive to see. ALL of you guys have reached or are striving to reach goals whether they be 10 second, 11 twelve’s or??. Don't let anyone tell you or lead you to believe your car is not impressive if it doesn't run in the tens. When you started coming to these events and broke into the 12's, that was very impressive. You, like Scotty, proved that a Wedge Chrysler, stock bore or stroked can get the job done. And just because you haven't hit the 10 second number, your car is not important? I know of no other wedge motor built by anyone out their that has accomplished what you James, Dave, Scotty or Tommy have. We at the SuperCars are not here to brain wash anyone to think that running in the 10's is the only way to be part of any group. We built this on friendship, love for the cars and competition. You put those in any order you want.

No matter what your car runs, I guarantee you will have the same feeling when you hit your goal. And it is up to us to make sure you’re having enough fun to want to come back.

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Ralph Barbagallo
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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:09 am 
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Posts: 60
Ed Cook wrote:
Nobody sitting in the stands wants to see a Super Car or a F.A.S.T car go slow. It's great to see pretty muscle car go in the 11's but it's MUCH BETTER TO SEE IT RUN IN THE 10's.


I understand the passion to strive for quicker times down the quarter mile. However, I think that sometimes when you're in the middle of your own personal quest to hit your next ET/MPH goal, you lose sight of the fact that the numbers many of you and your fellow racers are running IS Impressive.

You may have been there, done that, and want more. But, you forget, there are still A LOT of car enthusiasts out there that haven't "been there, done that" for themselves, and haven't seen you doing it. A perfect example was this past weekend at the Mopar Nationals, THE Largest Mopar event in the Entire world. Every time the SuperCar racers came back to the pits, there were Many spectators and fellow car owners swarming upon the SuperCars staged in the pit area. They were Impressed, and wanted to know more about the cars that just ran the numbers on bias ply tires. Up in the grandstands, there was a lot of people buzzing about the class and the numbers the cars were running. Out in Heath, no fewer than 4 separate people stopped to point out Scott's Green A12 as it sat in the parking lot near the street. And, what they said was, "Wow, that car was running 12.00 at the track today, on those tires!". And, they couldn't believe that a car that could run that quick would be out cruising around Heath. Don't forget, at this particular event, the fastest cars were mid 11's. People were impressed. Don't let anyone let you think otherwise.

If the only people that matter are the ones who have biggest, most powerful engines, than why would anyone with a small block engine car bother building a car for this style of racing? If there is no appreciation for a small block that's running in the 11's, or even the 12's, why should someone bother to participate? Everyone is at different levels, be it the new racer or the seasoned veteran. Everyone has a passion for different marques, models of car, and engine cubes. There should be a place for everyone to be seated at this table we call racing. They are all worthy of respect and admiration running 10's, 11's, 12's and beyond.

Gentlemen, I've had the privilege of sitting in the stands and videotaping practically every event that's been held on the East Coast in the last 4 years. So, I have a different perspective than that of the racers. And, I am privy the all the comments the people in the stands, in the towers and in the pits. You may not hear all the buzz surrounding you guys, but I do. And, I'll tell you, People never tire of seeing your cars going down the track, from the quickest to the slowest of the pack.

Oh, and Ed, I can't wait to see you break into the 10's! Because I feel like each of your (and your fellow class racers) milestones are my milestones. I'm excited to see each of you reach your own personal best, and that's what this class is all about.

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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:12 pm
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Location: North Salem NY
ed, you may have miss interpreted what i was trying to say, and maybe i didnt say it well!
and maybe i dont know everything technically,but i was asked to help and i did!

i was asked to work on the rules and the objective was to not allow traction control in this class.

So we talked alot about it and listened to people ( g.m. in my case,although a ford guy also) and determined, and agreed that we would consider traction control to be any device that senses drive train slip and corrects it accordingly ( not the actual definition used, but sums it up)

So then there was alot of talk about banning the programable dig. 7 box and i had people tell me they didnt like it to be banned and alot of resistance to that. I was always in favor of allowing it as long as any traction control devices were not hooked up to it, or any other.

i also under stand a 6 with the right switches or components can be used also.
therefore all i was saying is we dont want T.C.
If someone use the timing retard features etc. to tune for better performance, thats fine just dont hook up T.C.
Lane, and Chris can verify my positions on this all along.
I would also like to see you or anyone go in the 10s and admire all who are faster or slower.
I just want to be apart of this and run my car what ever it does.
i have no ill feelings toward any one who runs faster than me and would not try to effect the rules to level that playing field.
i also have never insinuated that if someone is fast they must be using T.C.
my good friend steve vanderwall has great 60's without it

Please dont take this the wrong way i just wanted to clarify my position.
:drive
besides, if anyone needs T.C. its me :D

_________________
69 Nova SS 396 L89
10.481
1.61 60’
132.34 mph


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:37 am 
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Posts: 84
Location: Sparkill, NY
I think my point is getting lost here? I do not run a digital box??? And yes I am very impressed with all the cars and more important the people that race in the class or I would not be doing it. But I also think that the nature of the class is to try and cheat! And in my eye if you can't see it you aint cheating.

More races more fun! More rules less fun!

No traction control yet ED


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:52 am 
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Location: Sparkill, NY
Ted

Just to be clear I am only stating my opinion and buy no means take offence to anything that has been said. I just wanna have fun and I am not sure there is even a car out there that does have TC? But in my opinion if you got it use it.

Steve
Tell Lane that Iam counting the moments to a Black and White Shootout!


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:12 pm
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Location: North Salem NY
awh hell, lets just have a beer 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:51 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:40 am
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Location: Ansonia, CT
I guess the big factor is that the Dig7 with all its variables is still just a tuning aid. When you pull up to the beams, you either have your car set right or not and you drive it. A feedback traction control will compensate for track conditions.

Here is an excerpt right from the Davis Technology page which illustrates my point. "With our systems the tire slip is controlled based on the conditions as you go down the track, not the conditions when you were in the pit programming the map to what you thought the conditions might be!" Thats just something that was decided that we don't want in this series.

Sure, the case can be made that your not cheating if you don't get caught, and thats been some peoples philosophy for a while. I bet if somebody puts their mind and wallet to it, a nitrous system could be hidden and not be found even if somebody was looking for it. So yeah, if somebody wants to cheat and does it right they could get away with it. We're just hoping that people don't view this rule as one thats made to be broken and people just decide to use the plenty of other tools to get down the track. Perhaps I am being naive but what can be done???


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:53 pm
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Location: Bristol CT
Ed Cook wrote:
I think my point is getting lost here? I do not run a digital box??? And yes I am very impressed with all the cars and more important the people that race in the class or I would not be doing it. But I also think that the nature of the class is to try and cheat! And in my eye if you can't see it you aint cheating.

More races more fun! More rules less fun!

No traction control yet ED


Ed we hear you and with confidence you can rest assured rule changes are not being tossed around by the rules committee. The Rules comittee is very solid and stable to the style of racing we all enjoy and are not here to change the world or reinvent the wheel.

I understand change is difficult for everyone. We all had to deal with change when we decided to run this class, some of us years ago and some of us are going through that change right now. There is comfortable change and then there is change that makes us ask questions and be concerned. I am confident that the rules you see will be the rules for years to come. Just like other organization we have a committee that listens to the racers and has a real voice that can be heard. This is not a dictatorship and never will be........

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American MuscleCar Racing
Ralph Barbagallo
Sharleen Barbagallo
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Chris Kuskowski

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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Posts: 106
Holly Crap Batman! You go to the track for the day, come back and all H*ll broke loose. ALL MSD, CRANE, Mallory, Jacobs ignitions are LEGAL.
Ed, Ican't wait to see you in NY. It'll be great to see everyone again, AND do some racing. The motor is finally going back together( we had a problem machining the carbon fiber block and heads) We were successuful hiding the electronics inside the empty coil housing. Works great, just stab the gas and go. Front tires 6inches in the air and no tire spin. We did manage to get the 4.750 crank in with a little clearencing. Had to hollowout the cam to put the nitous tank inside it though.
Well thats enough secrets fornow, got to get back at it , still need to fill the front tires with Helium. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Traction control
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:21 am 
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SuperCar Races wrote:
I understand change is difficult for everyone. We all had to deal with change when we decided to run this class, some of us years ago and some of us are going through that change right now. There is comfortable change and then there is change that makes us ask questions and be concerned.


Ralph,

Sounds like your running for president. :mrgreen:



P.S. Lane, Us mopar guys can't put the nitrous in the cam because of the cross drilled oil holes. We put it in the torsion bars, of course its a 2 stage system. ;)


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