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Cylinder Heads.
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Author:  cobrajet2 [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

If a company made a replacement head that looked like, weighed like, and offered the same level of performance as the OEM head, to the point where you could call it a reproduction head, use it. That way we would not have to rely on 40 year swap meet parts.

With regards to the Ford FE heads, they are all about the same. Some are a little better than others in their unported state, but none is hugely superior over the others (excluding Tunnel Ports and High Risers, which are'nt right for anything here anyway). They all require a lot of reworking to get even close to you BBC and Hemi guys. So it comes down to a casting number question. Is that head correct for that Year/Model Ford? It would be nice to be able to start with a less expensive casting, which you are going to pay to have heavily ported, rather than seeking out the more expensive Cobra Jet castings that the numbers guys are all after.

What we FE Ford guys need are Blocks that are'nt so thin that they are considered marginal at best, and still cost a fortune. I know, you only want to talk heads here. But consider this, once you start down this road, where will it stop? On the flipside, I am in favor of anything that keeps guys racin'. Nobody wants to be constantly spending money to fix broken parts. Lord knows Lane has paid his dues and then some.

Lastly, Ryan wrote:
Geee if fords dont have aluminum heads maybe you could build a chevy if you think thats such a great thing?? Last i recall all valid sources will tell you cast iron heads can and will make more power!

Are you serious? Last I checked aluminum was a lot lighter than cast iron. :shrug

Mike

Author:  Ted Daros [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

:) great post mike......

you have a great point about the block also, thats why we allow the aftermarket blocks in super cars :)

i also agree, what will we all do when the restorers have gotten all the parts at the swap meets,

Lets stop spending money on and destroying vintage parts, and leave them for the concours guys!

who are we kidding, we will all benefit!

besides what gets spent on some of these heads could go into bigger cube motors, and then dont port the heads to their grave!

Author:  RalphsRapidTransit [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

cobrajet2 wrote:
With regards to the Ford FE heads, they are all about the same. Some are a little better than others in their unported state, but none is hugely superior over the others (excluding Tunnel Ports and High Risers, which are'nt right for anything here anyway). They all require a lot of reworking to get even close to you BBC and Hemi guys. So it comes down to a casting number question. Is that head correct for that Year/Model Ford? It would be nice to be able to start with a less expensive casting, which you are going to pay to have heavily ported, rather than seeking out the more expensive Cobra Jet castings that the numbers guys are all after.


Can you give us some cast iron numbers we can post on the rules page.


cobrajet2 wrote:
What we FE Ford guys need are Blocks that are'nt so thin that they are considered marginal at best, and still cost a fortune. I know, you only want to talk heads here. But consider this, once you start down this road, where will it stop? On the flipside, I am in favor of anything that keeps guys racin'. Nobody wants to be constantly spending money to fix broken parts. Lord knows Lane has paid his dues and then some. Mike


You are all set with blocks, Right?

Author:  ssscamaro [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

the oems made heads from aluminum for 1 reason...cheaper to cast.
The aftermarket has followed suit for that reason and that they can be repaired.
Lighter yes. Better no way. ever see a rocker stud rip out of a cast iron head? Ever hear of thermal barrier coating an aluminum heads chambers? Why? thermal efficiency like a cast iron.
Port for port chamber to chamber cast iron WILL always make more power.
I cant disagree with weight.
Im done i dont care what is done, im bringing it legal to both divisions.
If i dont run good or the heads break. im done. I will sell this money pit go back to a slick tired car and never be heard from again.
so my aluminum block is an advantage because its light to? Only its down on power considerably from a cast iron block. Any engine builder will tell you that. Its only there for the coolness factor.
Dont change head rule. even if you do i still will have correct number heads on car. Mine are being repaired. i may be buying back my spare set i sold 3 months ago, and i found an NOS set that im going to cut up and prevent someone in pure stock or a numbers guy from getting his fantasy.
the costs of having fun. For the money i spent i could have an A/stock eliminator car or be running sub 8 second passes.
Are we having fun yet?

Author:  RalphsRapidTransit [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

ssscamaro wrote:
the oems made heads from aluminum for 1 reason...cheaper to cast.
The aftermarket has followed suit for that reason and that they can be repaired.
Lighter yes. Better no way. ever see a rocker stud rip out of a cast iron head? Ever hear of thermal barrier coating an aluminum heads chambers? Why? thermal efficiency like a cast iron.
Port for port chamber to chamber cast iron WILL always make more power.
I cant disagree with weight.
Im done i dont care what is done, im bringing it legal to both divisions.
If i dont run good or the heads break. im done. I will sell this money pit go back to a slick tired car and never be heard from again.
so my aluminum block is an advantage because its light to? Only its down on power considerably from a cast iron block. Any engine builder will tell you that. Its only there for the coolness factor.
Dont change head rule. even if you do i still will have correct number heads on car. Mine are being repaired. i may be buying back my spare set i sold 3 months ago, and i found an NOS set that im going to cut up and prevent someone in pure stock or a numbers guy from getting his fantasy.
the costs of having fun. For the money i spent i could have an A/stock eliminator car or be running sub 8 second passes.
Are we having fun yet?


As you know Ryan we don't disagree with a word you said. If Factory Appearing continues down the path it's going, We won't be around in five years. Ryan, I will garrentee you the SuperCar ShootOut in Five years will be the here and stronger than ever :winner .

Author:  cobrajet2 [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

Can you give us some cast iron numbers we can post on the rules page.

C6AE-U, C6AE-R, C7AE-A, C8AE-H are all common 390 FE heads that you could buy cheap and have money left over for some port work, compared to tracking down the "correct" Cobra Jet casting needed for 428 cars.

Ryan,
You are correct regarding the durability of aluminum vs. cast iron. I was thinking more about performance potential than durability. I have read about guys with bigger cams pulling the studs out of new aftermarket aluminum heads, let alone the 40 year old stuff we play with. I mean you play with.

Ford blocks look to be "covered" in the rules section.

Mike

Author:  Ted Daros [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

Mike, are those you listed fairly equal to what would be needed?

Author:  SuperCar Races [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

Great post guys, great feedback, We are excited about our future :winner . Again Thank you....

Author:  Ted Daros [ Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

[quote="Ted Daros"]Mike, are those you listed fairly equal to CJ heads once ported

Author:  cobrajet2 [ Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

Don't know for sure. If you hacked on them enough, they could probably come close to a CJ head's perfomance potential, but not exceed it. They don't have really any inherent advantage over a CJ head. Some have a hair smaller combustion chamber.

Mike

Author:  RalphsRapidTransit [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

Thanks for all the great work you guys have done these past couple of weeks. We are looking for Small Block Ford Casting Numbers and Small Block Chevrolet.

Author:  69 Malibu [ Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

I am new to the forum, and this question may have been asked in the past. For a SB chevy, are World Products cast iron SR (street replacement) heads acceptable. The heads are a 1.94 valve heads and are a direct replacement for the 1.94 camel hump head. I have tested both the original 186 casting and the world SR on a flow bench, both are extremely close in flow characteristics. Just thought I would ask because these are on my Chevelle.

Thanks,

Troy

Author:  Mike Derasmo [ Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

Even though they are close replacements, I don't think any aftermarket head is acceptable.

Author:  Robinson Analytical [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

if its worth anything, i'm new here and in the process of building a car for this series that will be 100% legal(heads included) and thats what has drawn me to this type of racing....old performance cars running against each other. if the head rules are relaxed it would be like changing history&we all know you cant do that.

make the best of what you have&if you are having problems with head castings, either change your combo(not make) or find a better head guy! aluminum is much easier to repair&re heat treat than cast iron. i'm building an olds&if anyone has a complaint about the cost, shape&rarity of used W castings its us. D F& H castings can be 5k to 10k and need a ton of work..last time i checked, thats way more than a chevy bb aluminum head.

so for me, dont relax the head rules.

Author:  Ted Daros [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cylinder Heads.

head rule is done! i dont think you will need it though....your reputation proceeds you!

welcome aboard, this will be fun!

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