:: View topic - Cylinder Heads.

THE OTHER HEADS AREN'T BETTER THERE IS JUST MORE OF THEM AVAILABLE.

RalphsRapidTransit wrote:

This is what we are talking about. Do you guys have an issue with this?

I do... see the last two sentences of my post above.

In the future if you don't want a different opinion, then don't ask.

Actually the point is no one is making one about the big cid. After spending "the money" on the heads and custom pistons. We aren't talking about an advantage. However at 1.74 hp per cid , Id rather have the extra 67 cubes.

What performance advange Lane? Your car has run mid 10s?

Yes ED, Ted is right. A fresh pair of Depends is cheaper than pants.

I think that switching heads to one that won't break at a certain level of performance (durability) is the same as switching to one that will allow a certain level of performance (head flow). Either way you'd be running an incorrect head to be able to run at that level.

Author:	RalphsRapidTransit [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
MFChassisworks wrote: THE OTHER HEADS AREN'T BETTER THERE IS JUST MORE OF THEM AVAILABLE. To make this clear no one has come to us campaining / or asked us to do this. The statement Andrew made in his last post says it all. Who disagrees with having more cars to compete against.

Author:	RalphsRapidTransit [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
goatless wrote: RalphsRapidTransit wrote: This is what we are talking about. Do you guys have an issue with this? I do... see the last two sentences of my post above. We want your oppinions, slow or quick we want to hear your thoughts.

Author:	Ted Daros [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
2.03 of the rules states........NOTE. any cylinder head or intake that is not the correct casting must be approved.... I think this is the way to deal with this in a fair way- anybody with a problem part needs to submit their case to the rules committe and they will review and allow if legitimate obstacle is present, as long as there is no significant performance gain! this is already in the rules for those who dont like changes, but addresses the issue!

Author:	FASTLane [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
Ted, my post says nothing of he who has the most money. It was an example of what I have decided to do to run my chosen combo. I did read the posts several times before I responded. If a cylinder head fails at a certain performance level, then it has reached its max performance. Allowing a replacement head ( I never said AFTERMARKET Ralph) then it DOES create a performance ADVANTAGE because it allows the combo to compete at a new level. Why did GM redesign the heads, to #1 reduce failure, #2 increase performance. Correct answer is BOTH. Aluminum and Iron MFChassisworks, I never said that a BBF is at a disadvantage for cubic inches. I've made it public knowledge to anyone who asked through the years. 429 advantage=cubic inches disadvantages= iron heads, one carb (vac sec) very heavy 720lbs BBC advantages= aluminum heads, cheaper parts, aluminum intake, lighter weight Disadvantages=must weld up aluminum heads to live 426 Hemi advantages= 2 carbs, Hemi chambers, race motor design, aluminum intake Disadvantage =heavy motor If your main goal is to bring in more cars, then by all means, continue to open up the rules . In the future if you don't want a different opinion, then don't ask.

Author:	Ed Cook [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
I like Jeremy's thinking! But Ryan hit the point I was trying to make. Same as original but made with better material which would lead me to believe that they can handle more stress That's an Advantage! Easy to come by. That's another advantage! Made to look just like the originals by adding foundry marking? I guess that really not an advantage but interesting. Better equipment means the cars are gonna go faster weather they do or do not have treads on there tires and or junk in the trunk. Ted to answer you question I guess I am against any rule change! My cars are built buy the rules most of us have been following for the last few years. So I will be legit either way I guess just at a little bit of disadvantage. MF your dipper joke went right over my head can you fill me in?? Ed

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Author:	MFChassisworks [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
A big block Ford HAS an advantage because you can build a 557. Id run a cast iron intake if could have the cubes. Hardparts aren't any cheaper? The cost of a Callies crank doesn't change because its going in something else other than a chev. Just for some info a 990 head we tested flowed the same and or less than the 840 head we tested. No gain. and again with low production numbers the parts aren't around. 1969 BBC parts that are any good are bought by the numbers guys. Good thing we are allowed to run a different OEM block , because we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Author:	Ted Daros [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
ed he's saying it gets scarry on these tires on the big end with the big H.P. cars, and ya may want a diaper to keep yer pants clean....AKA Ken V spinning at LVD.

Author:	FASTLane [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
MFChassisworks, a BBC open chamber head does make more horsepower than a closed chamber of the same CR due to chamber design and burn. Therefore a later open chamber head is a performance advantage in horsepower over a early closed chamber. I don't understand why you continue to address my cubic advantage when I thought I made it clear that yes a Ford BB can go BIG. What I liked about this racing was that each manufacturer has advantages and disadvantages. It made each of us consider our combo and work with it. Again, if the main goal is to attract more cars, then open up the rules. At this point it would be for the best.

Author:	Ed Cook [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
Thanks Ted

Author:	F1scamp [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
MFChassisworks wrote: Actually the point is no one is making one about the big cid. After spending "the money" on the heads and custom pistons. We aren't talking about an advantage. However at 1.74 hp per cid , Id rather have the extra 67 cubes. What performance advange Lane? Your car has run mid 10s? Yes ED, Ted is right. A fresh pair of Depends is cheaper than pants. Then build a BBF I think we would be seeing a heck of alot more al. headed bbc around. I would be okay with that if the smallblock mopars could run w-2's.

Author:	ssscamaro [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
ok my 074s are aluminum not cast iron. my blocks aluminum as well. the big problem with them is after a ceratin point they cannot be repaired any more. the aluminum becomes to soft! They loose ther hardness and fail. welding might get rid of cracks but the are going to fail easier and easier as there life progresses welding makes them worse! The reasons i ( or anyone in my opinion) would want to use the later 077s (73 or 74 up till late 80s they were made) is durability and availabilty. They are identical port volume on intake and chamber, smaller port on exhuast (yes the exhuast is a better d shape vs round and flow better however every set of decent flowing correct 074 have d ports WELDED into them! so that just adds to problem. more welding softens the aluminum. So to start with a set of 077s at least gives some inherent life to the build, removes some work needed to port to same attainable level. Thats the only reason. im not a numbers guy but i would prefer to have the original 074s if at all possible if they were not a hassle to possbly get agood set. At least i could brag that my zl1 clone fast race car has the right casting numbers under the valve cover. 3500-4500 buys a NOS set still. they should get better seats and full porting talking another 1500. The 077s NOS can be had for 2000 dont need seats as aluminum is better and seats stay put, so maybe another 1000 to get them posrted and race ready. so 5k on the low side vs 3500 on the low side. $1500!! thats considerable! plus they wont jeopardize my build. This would need to be fair for everyone. Im not talking just me. i hope my glued and welded together stuff still kicks butt. I am sure there are others in supercar and the other series that could benifit. by the way i would not change anyway unless both series allowed so more than likely no one will need to worry about my unfair advantage. Geee if fords dont have aluminum heads maybe you could build a chevy if you think thats such a great thing?? Last i recall all valid sources will tell you cast iron heads can and will make more power! Ryan

Author:	ssscamaro [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
two more things then i wont rant any more. I am not sure of bbc cast iron closed chamber heads..below may still apply On bbc closed chamber aluminum heads, they can be modified for open chamber pistons. So the piston thing would be mute point. If i were building say al89 camaro(842 casting legal aluminum head) i would take the legal head carve up the closed chamber head into a open style, requiering welding! so here i go welding on $5000 heads to create an open chamber design to be competitive with the as cast open chamber heads, therby weakening my heads and turning them into junk in nearly no time. I know pick a different car/combo then... What mopar/ford/buick/olds books can i buy to study casting numbers and coreectness? I have every chevy book known.

Author:	goatless [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Cylinder Heads.
goatless wrote: I think that switching heads to one that won't break at a certain level of performance (durability) is the same as switching to one that will allow a certain level of performance (head flow). Either way you'd be running an incorrect head to be able to run at that level. Just in case anyone missed my point earlier.

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