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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Location: Oreland, PA.
If a company made a replacement head that looked like, weighed like, and offered the same level of performance as the OEM head, to the point where you could call it a reproduction head, use it. That way we would not have to rely on 40 year swap meet parts.

With regards to the Ford FE heads, they are all about the same. Some are a little better than others in their unported state, but none is hugely superior over the others (excluding Tunnel Ports and High Risers, which are'nt right for anything here anyway). They all require a lot of reworking to get even close to you BBC and Hemi guys. So it comes down to a casting number question. Is that head correct for that Year/Model Ford? It would be nice to be able to start with a less expensive casting, which you are going to pay to have heavily ported, rather than seeking out the more expensive Cobra Jet castings that the numbers guys are all after.

What we FE Ford guys need are Blocks that are'nt so thin that they are considered marginal at best, and still cost a fortune. I know, you only want to talk heads here. But consider this, once you start down this road, where will it stop? On the flipside, I am in favor of anything that keeps guys racin'. Nobody wants to be constantly spending money to fix broken parts. Lord knows Lane has paid his dues and then some.

Lastly, Ryan wrote:
Geee if fords dont have aluminum heads maybe you could build a chevy if you think thats such a great thing?? Last i recall all valid sources will tell you cast iron heads can and will make more power!

Are you serious? Last I checked aluminum was a lot lighter than cast iron. :shrug

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:47 pm 
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:) great post mike......

you have a great point about the block also, thats why we allow the aftermarket blocks in super cars :)

i also agree, what will we all do when the restorers have gotten all the parts at the swap meets,

Lets stop spending money on and destroying vintage parts, and leave them for the concours guys!

who are we kidding, we will all benefit!

besides what gets spent on some of these heads could go into bigger cube motors, and then dont port the heads to their grave!

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:19 pm 
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cobrajet2 wrote:
With regards to the Ford FE heads, they are all about the same. Some are a little better than others in their unported state, but none is hugely superior over the others (excluding Tunnel Ports and High Risers, which are'nt right for anything here anyway). They all require a lot of reworking to get even close to you BBC and Hemi guys. So it comes down to a casting number question. Is that head correct for that Year/Model Ford? It would be nice to be able to start with a less expensive casting, which you are going to pay to have heavily ported, rather than seeking out the more expensive Cobra Jet castings that the numbers guys are all after.


Can you give us some cast iron numbers we can post on the rules page.


cobrajet2 wrote:
What we FE Ford guys need are Blocks that are'nt so thin that they are considered marginal at best, and still cost a fortune. I know, you only want to talk heads here. But consider this, once you start down this road, where will it stop? On the flipside, I am in favor of anything that keeps guys racin'. Nobody wants to be constantly spending money to fix broken parts. Lord knows Lane has paid his dues and then some. Mike


You are all set with blocks, Right?

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66 Belvedere I HP2 Hemi Auto 11.13 @ 124MPH 1.68 60' S/A

70 RoadRunner 440+6 Auto 11.21 @ 124MPH 1.72 60' S/A

70 RoadRunner Hemi Auto 12.39 @ 113MPH 1.90 60' S/A

71 GTX 440+6 Auto 11.35 @ 123MPH 1.79 60' S/A

71 RoadRunner 440+6 4Spd 13.61 @ 101MPH 1.99 60' P/S

72 Demon GSS 340 S/A 11.81 @ 118MPH 1.91 60' S/A


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:06 pm 
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the oems made heads from aluminum for 1 reason...cheaper to cast.
The aftermarket has followed suit for that reason and that they can be repaired.
Lighter yes. Better no way. ever see a rocker stud rip out of a cast iron head? Ever hear of thermal barrier coating an aluminum heads chambers? Why? thermal efficiency like a cast iron.
Port for port chamber to chamber cast iron WILL always make more power.
I cant disagree with weight.
Im done i dont care what is done, im bringing it legal to both divisions.
If i dont run good or the heads break. im done. I will sell this money pit go back to a slick tired car and never be heard from again.
so my aluminum block is an advantage because its light to? Only its down on power considerably from a cast iron block. Any engine builder will tell you that. Its only there for the coolness factor.
Dont change head rule. even if you do i still will have correct number heads on car. Mine are being repaired. i may be buying back my spare set i sold 3 months ago, and i found an NOS set that im going to cut up and prevent someone in pure stock or a numbers guy from getting his fantasy.
the costs of having fun. For the money i spent i could have an A/stock eliminator car or be running sub 8 second passes.
Are we having fun yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:17 pm 
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Location: Bristol CT
ssscamaro wrote:
the oems made heads from aluminum for 1 reason...cheaper to cast.
The aftermarket has followed suit for that reason and that they can be repaired.
Lighter yes. Better no way. ever see a rocker stud rip out of a cast iron head? Ever hear of thermal barrier coating an aluminum heads chambers? Why? thermal efficiency like a cast iron.
Port for port chamber to chamber cast iron WILL always make more power.
I cant disagree with weight.
Im done i dont care what is done, im bringing it legal to both divisions.
If i dont run good or the heads break. im done. I will sell this money pit go back to a slick tired car and never be heard from again.
so my aluminum block is an advantage because its light to? Only its down on power considerably from a cast iron block. Any engine builder will tell you that. Its only there for the coolness factor.
Dont change head rule. even if you do i still will have correct number heads on car. Mine are being repaired. i may be buying back my spare set i sold 3 months ago, and i found an NOS set that im going to cut up and prevent someone in pure stock or a numbers guy from getting his fantasy.
the costs of having fun. For the money i spent i could have an A/stock eliminator car or be running sub 8 second passes.
Are we having fun yet?


As you know Ryan we don't disagree with a word you said. If Factory Appearing continues down the path it's going, We won't be around in five years. Ryan, I will garrentee you the SuperCar ShootOut in Five years will be the here and stronger than ever :winner .

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SUPERCAR LEGAL

66 Belvedere I HP2 Hemi Auto 11.13 @ 124MPH 1.68 60' S/A

70 RoadRunner 440+6 Auto 11.21 @ 124MPH 1.72 60' S/A

70 RoadRunner Hemi Auto 12.39 @ 113MPH 1.90 60' S/A

71 GTX 440+6 Auto 11.35 @ 123MPH 1.79 60' S/A

71 RoadRunner 440+6 4Spd 13.61 @ 101MPH 1.99 60' P/S

72 Demon GSS 340 S/A 11.81 @ 118MPH 1.91 60' S/A


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Location: Oreland, PA.
Can you give us some cast iron numbers we can post on the rules page.

C6AE-U, C6AE-R, C7AE-A, C8AE-H are all common 390 FE heads that you could buy cheap and have money left over for some port work, compared to tracking down the "correct" Cobra Jet casting needed for 428 cars.

Ryan,
You are correct regarding the durability of aluminum vs. cast iron. I was thinking more about performance potential than durability. I have read about guys with bigger cams pulling the studs out of new aftermarket aluminum heads, let alone the 40 year old stuff we play with. I mean you play with.

Ford blocks look to be "covered" in the rules section.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Mike, are those you listed fairly equal to what would be needed?


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Great post guys, great feedback, We are excited about our future :winner . Again Thank you....


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:54 pm 
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[quote="Ted Daros"]Mike, are those you listed fairly equal to CJ heads once ported


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:46 pm 
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Location: Oreland, PA.
Don't know for sure. If you hacked on them enough, they could probably come close to a CJ head's perfomance potential, but not exceed it. They don't have really any inherent advantage over a CJ head. Some have a hair smaller combustion chamber.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:06 pm 
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Location: Bristol CT
Thanks for all the great work you guys have done these past couple of weeks. We are looking for Small Block Ford Casting Numbers and Small Block Chevrolet.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:13 am 
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I am new to the forum, and this question may have been asked in the past. For a SB chevy, are World Products cast iron SR (street replacement) heads acceptable. The heads are a 1.94 valve heads and are a direct replacement for the 1.94 camel hump head. I have tested both the original 186 casting and the world SR on a flow bench, both are extremely close in flow characteristics. Just thought I would ask because these are on my Chevelle.

Thanks,

Troy


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:15 pm 
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Location: Watertown,Ct.
Even though they are close replacements, I don't think any aftermarket head is acceptable.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:49 pm
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if its worth anything, i'm new here and in the process of building a car for this series that will be 100% legal(heads included) and thats what has drawn me to this type of racing....old performance cars running against each other. if the head rules are relaxed it would be like changing history&we all know you cant do that.

make the best of what you have&if you are having problems with head castings, either change your combo(not make) or find a better head guy! aluminum is much easier to repair&re heat treat than cast iron. i'm building an olds&if anyone has a complaint about the cost, shape&rarity of used W castings its us. D F& H castings can be 5k to 10k and need a ton of work..last time i checked, thats way more than a chevy bb aluminum head.

so for me, dont relax the head rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder Heads.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:36 am 
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Location: North Salem NY
head rule is done! i dont think you will need it though....your reputation proceeds you!

welcome aboard, this will be fun!

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